Chat Session B

Chat Session B

19:02:35 From Nori Nishigaya : Hey everyone!

19:02:51 From Richard McCorkle : hi

19:02:51 From Steve Lockhart : 👋

19:03:01 From Zoé (she/her) : hello hello :)

19:03:01 From Jason Toevs : 👋

19:03:03 From Kyle/Holymacaroni : hello

19:03:04 From Felix Weber : huhuu n happy thursday everyone :)

19:03:07 From Nori Nishigaya : Lovely sea of faces 🙂

19:03:08 From Bryan Gatzemeyer : 👋🏼

19:03:16 From Andrew Ponto : 👋

19:03:16 From Matthias Sieber : huhu :)

19:03:17 From Nyk Cowham : Hi everyone!

19:03:33 From Alejandro Gelves : hello

19:03:43 From Phil K : 👋

19:03:57 From Alex Pestchanker : Now we can read the slides 😊👍

19:04:01 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : Hello everyone. Look forward to collaborate.

19:04:02 From Kyle/Holymacaroni : Well, there is at least one key difference between the calls. The questions potentially to be asked :)

19:04:37 From Nori Nishigaya : Hi Jack!

19:06:10 From Darlington Wleh : teeheeheee; shout out QA-DAO!

19:06:26 From Nori Nishigaya : QA-DAO is amazing 🙂

19:06:48 From Cardboard Quasars : Yes, everyone is amazing.

19:07:13 From Felix Weber : @moderator.. pls check waiting room.. seems there are people waiting there

19:08:06 From Philip Lazos : I'm admitting everyone I can find

19:08:39 From Felix Weber : did you used the same zoom link for both calls ?

19:08:48 From S. R. : No

19:09:01 From S. R. : The first one did not work for this meeting in my experience

19:11:39 From Zoé (she/her) : still 1 ADA = 1 vote with this new model?

19:13:18 From Philip Lazos : Feel free to ask anything, I'm still here

19:13:23 From Ninh Tran : Does your voting power go away after casting a vote on one proposal? Was there a change? I thought Voting power at the moment doesn't disappear after casting a vote on a project so voters can vote with the full voting power for any projects. Am I wrong?

19:13:31 From Nori Nishigaya : - Can groups (say Cardano4Climate) be a D-Rep or does it need to be an individual?

- Will quadratic voting ever be considered to limit the impact of whale voting and concentrations of power?

19:13:39 From Philip Lazos : No, the voting power doesn't go away

19:13:43 From Kenric Nelson : Is there going to be a saturation of the dRep voting power?

19:14:06 From Philip Lazos : Yes, similar to the stake pools

19:14:14 From Philip Lazos : It's coming up in a couple slides

19:14:21 From Kenric Nelson : Okay, thanks

19:14:32 From Florin Sfrent : Will Dreps be anonymous like CAs or known like VCAs

19:14:45 From Cardboard Quasars : Deliberative or Discursive democracy is an additional experimental framework that may be best or available for those that aren't chosen.

19:15:12 From Philip Lazos : dReps won't be anonymous

19:15:36 From Felix Weber : here a really thoughtful critique on this idea of dReps and all.. worth to give it a read :)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1d1_pmcfXHqPJUGjfcrcGwCoVsYpP7fZc/view?usp=sharing

19:17:07 From Dwayne Collard : Does a NO vote count towards the number of Challenge Fund votes?

19:17:20 From Kenric Nelson : Thanks @Felix; we'll add this to our literature database and include this in our F8 white paper for Governance Oversight

19:17:21 From Philip Lazos : That's a high quality paper, but the model doesn't quite apply here

19:17:25 From Monica Kahindo : So in essence, could a dRep chose to specialize in a specific area for proposals that they will vote on and consolidate voting power from those Ada Holders interested in proposals in that catalyst category provided it meets the minimum ask to vote on 60 proposals ?

19:17:37 From Philip Lazos : We'll publish our own in due time

19:17:39 From Felix Weber : @Kenric.. i think Stephen did already

19:18:23 From Tomi Astikainen : So, your own ADA + delegated ADA

19:18:24 From Cardboard Quasars : What's the current cap for whales and their voting rewards?

19:18:54 From Philip Lazos : There's no cap for direct voters (exactly as before)

19:19:07 From Philip Lazos : There's a 1% cap for delegated voting power

19:19:33 From Cardboard Quasars : So Whales still get the 13.8% of their stake?

19:19:58 From Zoé (she/her) : dRep can delegate to him/herself too? or is one either regular voter or drep?

19:20:30 From S. R. : Depends on how your wallets are set up Zoe

19:20:32 From Philip Lazos : Either one or the other, but a second wallet can always provide this functionality

19:21:05 From Ninh Tran : 1% with the reward means $306,000 that's incentivized maximum stake and beyond that rewards are limited but voting power is not limited. I am assuming right?

19:21:20 From Kyle/Holymacaroni : i thought that was a minimum of 60 proposals this morning?

19:21:20 From Ninh Tran : *delegation

19:21:41 From Sebastian Pereira : Will these changes be implemented in Fund 9? Or latter ones?

19:21:47 From Kenric Nelson : 60 per dRep; 30 per direct vote

19:21:48 From S. R. : ^0 votes for dRep and 30 for indvidual voters

19:21:50 From Kyle/Holymacaroni : and yeah, interesting about the 1% cap. and how whales have so much voting power.

19:21:56 From S. R. : *60

19:21:59 From Kyle/Holymacaroni : ah, thx kenric

19:22:09 From Kyle/Holymacaroni : and s.r.

19:22:11 From Tomi Astikainen : Wait, the more you vote the more you get?

19:22:16 From Cardboard Quasars : minimum asks doesn't remove whales influence, it does make then hit 29 additional buttons. Interesting things can happen here!

19:22:17 From Tomi Astikainen : (directly)

19:23:44 From Cardboard Quasars : Where do those voter rewards to go if someone doesn't vote on 30 proposals?

19:23:53 From Phil K : @quasar if they care about the rewards I guess

19:23:53 From Logan Panchot : When will changes be implemented? fund9?

19:24:01 From Florin Sfrent : Will the 150 eligible Dreps be know in advance, and are there any risks of allocating time and resources (as a Drep) into the role only to find out at the end that you are outside the 150 pool?

19:24:50 From Tomi Astikainen : What does the canvasing for voters mean? Do we have to go campaigning and looking pretty, badmouthing the opponents and digging up dirt about them?

19:24:55 From Philip Lazos : The 150 top dReps will be known after the election

19:25:09 From Kenric Nelson : Is 1% of total ADA supply or 1% of registered voting power?

19:25:17 From Philip Lazos : registered voting power

19:25:19 From Cardboard Quasars : Tomi, yes please, look pretty

19:25:33 From Tomi Astikainen : Can I hire you to be pretty?

19:26:08 From Cardboard Quasars : please yes. My voting rewards were 2.4 ada. will vote for food

19:26:18 From Zoé (she/her) : what if sb is not transparent and voters don't recognize?

19:26:18 From Steve Lockhart : *be a drep rep

19:26:24 From Zoé (she/her) : dreprep xD

19:26:30 From Tomi Astikainen : Quasar, no food. It's liquid democracy. Only beer.

19:26:37 From Felix Weber : but you have yoour referrer rewards @Quasar ;)

19:27:10 From Jason Toevs : And who enforces that transparency?

19:27:24 From Cardboard Quasars : Yes Felix I do. Trying to find out who all added me as referrer? Was it swarm?

19:27:58 From Felix Weber : ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

19:28:09 From Felix Weber : guess the people you brought in ^^

19:28:30 From Cardboard Quasars : ha! Yes, perhaps.

19:28:52 From Cardboard Quasars : regardless, I am grateful!

19:28:58 From Sebastian Pabon : could you share the slides, please?

19:29:06 From Tomi Astikainen : Waaaait, you need to be more clear on what's ok and what's not.

19:29:19 From Jason Toevs : ^^

19:29:28 From Tomi Astikainen : Can I as a dRep downvote the shit out of my enemies in the same challenge where I am a proposer?

19:29:29 From Cardboard Quasars : Speaking of Philosophy...sounds like a great proposal to fund.

19:29:45 From S. R. : @Tomi as long as you are transparent

19:29:57 From Tomi Astikainen : So, it's ok?

19:30:03 From Zoé (she/her) : 500 ADA wallet like regular voting?

19:30:05 From Steve Lockhart : why not?

19:30:22 From S. R. : I don't know, that was raised in the first meeting. No answer really, except be honest and transparent’

19:30:41 From Tomi Astikainen : If I can't be a Proposal Assessor (PA, former CA) in the same challenge where I have proposed, why should I be allowed to be a d-rapper?

19:31:11 From S. R. : Shrug…no idea. I'm with you.

19:31:21 From Jason Toevs : I lean toward this thought as well but only DIDs could enforce no?

19:31:27 From Cardboard Quasars : Tomi, who will be left in the dapps, products challenge?

19:31:40 From Alejandro Gelves : does the wallet of the drep count for voting power?

19:31:42 From George Lovegrove : *8 funds 😛

19:31:49 From Sebastian Pereira : Augmented Bonding Curve

19:31:54 From Cardboard Quasars : nice one George!

19:31:58 From George Lovegrove : gitcoin been working on that a fair while

19:33:21 From Cardboard Quasars : Or with a whale that votes directly on less than 30 proposals?

19:33:29 From Tomi Astikainen : Where is this $3060 per dripdrap coming from?

19:33:43 From Sebastian Pabon To Jack Briggs(privately) : Hi, can you share the slides, please?

19:35:20 From Cardboard Quasars : $2M in voter rewards is going somewhere

19:35:30 From Zoé (she/her) : What happened to the "registration" mini-Essay we had to write? was this just for insights? :)

19:36:15 From Nori Nishigaya : That was a lot of work and thought 🙂

19:36:41 From Cardboard Quasars : We all need some workshops to discuss these things

19:36:53 From Nori Nishigaya : I’d love to read the submissions

19:37:55 From S. R. : Is the dRep required to have ADA in the dRep wallet? If so, is it just the min 500 ADA?

19:38:04 From Matthias Sieber : @Nori, I would not want mine to be public as I saw this as busy work to be just part of the conversation and my view on governance has deepened over the months since submission of that form.

19:38:05 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : I don't mind sharing submissions. We should be good models in transparency.

19:38:24 From Matthias Sieber : if it gets communicated ahead of time, yes

19:38:25 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : but yes I am sure many (including me) will evolve With the workshops.

19:38:47 From Cardboard Quasars : yes Eystein, transparency and collaborative environments will assist.

19:38:55 From Felix Weber : with 220.. ~40 folks in Session #A & ~60 for session two, whereare the other 120 ones ?

19:38:58 From Tomi Astikainen : Jack mentioned that for passive voters it pays off to delegate because the minimum for dReps is 60 and for them it's 30. Is it really so that the more proposals you vote for the more you get?

19:39:10 From S. R. : LOL @Felix

19:39:12 From Nori Nishigaya : In different time zones or working?

19:39:14 From Felix Weber : just asking

19:39:19 From Vladimir Pekic : The drep form specified: "Note: this will remain confidential at this stage and will not be published. Your public facing profile will be created at a later stage."

19:39:30 From Vladimir Pekic : So the public facing profile is to be written later

19:39:34 From Tomi Astikainen : Soon we'll get VdReps who check if the dRep reasonings are Excellent, Good or Filtered Out...

19:39:48 From Cardboard Quasars : qReps is the way

19:39:52 From Zoé (she/her) : ccvdrepv3

19:40:03 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : ah right Vladimir I forgot about that.

19:40:09 From S. R. : pavpaccrepvdrep

19:40:11 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : Yeah good we can Write profile later then.

19:40:24 From Jason Toevs : I want Paladin dRep level...

19:40:24 From Cardboard Quasars : The qreps of dlib9

19:40:25 From Matthias Sieber : DPOs in the making, too

19:40:54 From Alejandro Gelves : breaking up

19:41:20 From Felix Weber : Richard.. really hard to understand you

19:41:22 From Steve Lockhart : maybe richard shouold write in the chat

19:41:28 From Albert Betorz : Write in chat

19:41:31 From Jason Toevs : Write in chat

19:41:35 From Ninh Tran : +1 chat

19:41:42 From Sheridan Lund : or turn the video off

19:41:56 From Cardboard Quasars : 🌻

19:41:58 From Steve Lockhart : what if they're good biases?

19:42:06 From Felix Weber : respect to Jack :)

19:42:32 From Nori Nishigaya : everyone has biases, it's part of being human 🙂

19:42:51 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : Do we have a discord for dreps?

19:43:11 From Cardboard Quasars : Working on it Eystein, will add to Catalyst and hardfork

19:43:23 From Felix Weber : ah.. we have a channel on the Catalyst Discord

19:43:28 From Phil K : https://discord.gg/5nAmvVBdJY

19:43:33 From S. R. : https://discord.gg/ExVub3eM

19:43:38 From Tomi Astikainen : Can we have public stoning in the Metaverse for dishonest dReps?

19:43:41 From Phil K : drep chan

19:43:50 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : Thanks I see it.

19:44:03 From Phil K : super

19:44:54 From Florin Sfrent : Excellent question!

19:45:24 From Phil K : so one drep per wallet?

19:46:34 From Tomi Astikainen : Good question, Phil.

19:46:51 From Tomi Astikainen : I'll get my sis, mom and dead grandma to join also and make wallets for them.

19:47:27 From Cardboard Quasars : CIP36 here we come

19:47:27 From Jason Toevs : 👆

19:47:30 From Kenric Nelson : Is the control against an individual or organization registering multiple dRep wallets?

19:47:45 From Jason Toevs : Proof of Life?

19:47:49 From Jason Toevs : Not fullproof

19:48:25 From Tomi Astikainen : My mom is able to sit for a minute in a video call but she won't be able to drep.

19:48:50 From Felix Weber : https://cips.cardano.org/cips/cip36/

19:49:08 From Felix Weber : this one Quasar ?

19:49:24 From Cardboard Quasars : maybe...

19:49:46 From Cardboard Quasars : indeed on the 36

19:50:25 From Dayna Kovacic : Is there are drep code of conduct since this is more of a representative position of the Cardano and Catalyst community as a whole? If so, where are these standards? How many strikes / warnings before you are out?

19:50:44 From Darlington Wleh : That’s an agenda in a future workshop @dayna

19:51:00 From Dayna Kovacic : ok thx

19:51:21 From Darlington Wleh : “to have voted in a previous round" hope that doesn't mean you have to use that same wallet!

19:52:09 From Tomi Astikainen : I would also like to make a specific new wallet just for this.

19:52:25 From Darlington Wleh : right; me tooooo

19:52:48 From George Lovegrove : very non trivial

19:53:03 From Zoé (she/her) : same... will ask about wallet stuff

19:53:34 From George Lovegrove : all on ideascale

19:53:40 From Felix Weber : pls not XD

19:53:44 From Phil K : ha @George

19:53:46 From Zoé (she/her) : oh-

19:54:01 From Kenric Nelson : With regard to QV, the requirements are similar to saturating the voing power. So the problem for dReps is already solved by proof of life requirement. The remaining issue is how direct voting power is handled.

19:54:03 From Jason Toevs : Forthcoming… soon? 😛

19:54:06 From tevo Saks : Is there a list of Discord names of those who are dReps? or is there a plan to survey dreps even more?

We had recently discussion to have verified Drep roles in the Discord Server

19:54:42 From Felix Weber : @Harris.. ☝️

19:55:53 From Dayna Kovacic : Is there anything in place that stops certain dreps from becoming like appointed casino whale hosts? I know they are maxed at 1% voting power, but if there are a number of specific people holding a majority of whale delegation and/or the same whales are seen delegating across the same small number of dreps - is this even a valid concern?

19:57:03 From Jason Toevs : @Dana - I think many whales will continue to Direct vote as they hold more than 1%

19:57:12 From Jason Toevs : .. well some.

19:57:18 From tevo Saks : @dayna, it totally is possible, but why would they use drep to game the system?

19:57:28 From Kenric Nelson : @Dayna, yes its a valid concern. Because dReps will be public they will be under pressure from high ADA holders to vote in a certain way. A whale might try to influence several dReps.

19:57:32 From tevo Saks : why not just vote by themselves and have MORE impact

19:57:54 From George Lovegrove : dRep recursion

19:58:07 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : drep to drep would be voting loop riks?

19:58:09 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : risk

19:58:16 From George Lovegrove : circular dependency error

19:58:19 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : hehe

19:58:23 From Ninh Tran : I am curious if there is anyone here that is interested to collaborate on research paper for Quadratic Sybil Resistance, we already have a couple of folks like Dr. Kenric Nelson who are onboard. Would love to connect: https://t.me/ninhtran09

19:58:33 From Kenric Nelson : @tevo, if a high ADA holder is able to influence a dRep with say 0.5% staked then they expand their influence

19:58:45 From Dayna Kovacic : I just didn't know if there were whales who got in so early but are not as involved in the day to day and do not want to read through all the thousands of proposals like you were saying

19:58:50 From George Lovegrove : I can't wait to read anything Ninh!

19:58:50 From Vladimir Pekic : 150 dRep Quasars 😀

19:59:05 From tevo Saks : yes Kenric but they have more power to do it by themselves. just said

19:59:11 From Jason Toevs : ^^

19:59:13 From tevo Saks : because drep is capped

19:59:14 From Phil K : ha @Vladimir

19:59:20 From tevo Saks : your own votes are not

19:59:21 From S. R. : dRep can still delegate personal stake to other dRep that is in a different wallet though.

19:59:28 From Felix Weber : btw.. there is a Fund 9 Challenge called: dRep improvement and onboarding https://cardano.ideascale.com/c/campaigns/26601/about

19:59:45 From Felix Weber : son if there are any great ideas around.. pls go for it :)à

19:59:59 From Tomi Astikainen : yes, father

20:00:04 From Felix Weber : typo^^

20:00:04 From Nori Nishigaya : XD

20:00:09 From S. R. : 😂

20:00:24 From Felix Weber : hahaha.. if i would have a son i definitely would tell him about XD

20:00:27 From Zoé (she/her) : LOL xD

20:01:00 From Felix Weber : but yeah.. would be great to have some folks here teaming up for some great initiatives

20:01:12 From Jon Depinet : I came in late, were there slides or plans to release a recording of this call?

20:01:39 From S. R. : slides will be emailed

20:01:47 From Darlington Wleh : Will the voting center facilitate any threaded /forum style messaging (for those pre-voting discussions)? Or are dreps expected to hosting their own messaging platforms?

20:01:48 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : video is recorded

20:01:49 From Nori Nishigaya : I hope there is a recording, over half of the registered d-reps did not come

20:03:10 From Jon Depinet : thanks.

20:03:29 From Matthias Sieber : going forward funds are denoted in ADA though?

20:04:19 From Steve Lockhart : #ludicroushappens

20:04:20 From George Lovegrove : being funded for something never guarantees a change will be made with our current setup

20:04:32 From Jason Toevs : Or a whale loves it.

20:04:44 From Matthias Sieber : @Phil, that was your hint

20:05:07 From Phil K : ;)

20:05:08 From Nori Nishigaya : Thanks, Yuta, for the challenge setting so we can experiment.

20:06:08 From Florin Sfrent : wasn't there a reward system where you vote once and you get rewards? did this change?

20:06:43 From Zoé (she/her) : i thought previously it was: more ada/voting power, more rewards, no matter how many proposals..

20:07:55 From Alejandro Gelves : Are all dreps on discord?

20:08:11 From Tomi Astikainen : KILT has a solution :)

20:08:23 From Zoé (she/her) : but nobody *is* a drep by now, right? x)

20:08:38 From Tomi Astikainen : https://socialkyc.io/

20:09:04 From Monica Kahindo : indeed, no one is yet

20:09:20 From S. R. : Thanks

20:09:23 From Eystein Magnus Hansen : Thansk

20:09:24 From Sebastian Pabon : are you gonna share the record?

20:09:26 From Zoé (she/her) : thank youu!

20:09:30 From Vladimir Pekic : Bye everyone